Why Ubuntu isn’t for New Linux Users

By devnet
24 February, 2006
108 Comments

Hello there! If you are new here, you might want to subscribe to the RSS feed for updates on this topic.

I was getting a bit tired of saying the same things over and over to friends on the net. I was getting tired of repetitiously posting in forums the same sentiment over and over. Yet, just like getting a second wind in a long and tiring race…my tiredness melts away and I find myself feeling refreshed and anew. What the subject of this rant has to say and what I have to say in the paragraphs below are NOT written to start a flame war. I am a user of Ubuntu and a strong supporter of all Debian based distros. This article is written to allow insight into where I believe Linux needs to go to succeed. I’m not out to win any popularity contests…I’m not out to garner a bunch of page hits to generate ad revenue. I’m just out to help the Linux community and rant a bit when I find a subject that strikes a nerve. The subject at hand is Why Ubuntu is NOT New Linux Users.

Notice that I say New Linux Users as apposed to just New Users. A new Linux user would be one that is new to Linux on as a whole. A new user would be one that is trying Ubuntu for the first time not crossing over from another distro or another *nix OS. So let’s be real clear up front that this isn’t about those that have Linux knowledge trying Ubuntu for the first time. This is about your mother-in-law or grandmother or aunt/uncle who, if they tried Linux, would be doing so for the first time ever. This is about my Wife, who tried Linux for the first time ever last year. This is about all of those people who possibly haven’t even heard of Linux before. This is the target audience. This is who all programmers and application designers should keeping right in the middle of the bullseye. Not convinced? Let’s chat a bit more about it.

We can only move forward toward acceptance if we allow everyone, no matter what their preconceived level of experience with technology is, to understand Linux. Apple understands this. Google understands this. Both companies offer easy to use interfaces to their software and if you look under the hood what do you find? *nix. That’s right. Unix and Linux. Novell is a company that is beginning to get it. But why aren’t individuals? Why aren’t more distros?

The target audience for Linux to gain acceptance on the desktop…that is, to make it mainstream..is to appeal to even the most technologically challenged user out there, and make Linux as easy as point and click to operate.

Ubuntu is making great strides toward making Linux good for the desktop. There are others out there that one could argue are doing a fine job…PCLinuxOS, OpenSuse, Mandriva. However, when someone hands a new Linux user a disc, most likely it is Ubuntu or TheOpenCD. Are you doing that person a favor? I don’t think so.

Ubuntu isn’t a distribution that is set for any new user. The average user wouldn’t be able to tell you how to clear a cache, let alone what spyware or adware is. Don’t think I’m right? My wife asked everyone in the office where she works why they don’t use Firefox as a browser. None of them even knew there was something called Firefox that was an alternative to IE. And that’s just one part of open source. Imagine what else they haven’t heard of!

The average computer user does not possess the technical expertise to drop to a command line and issue commands…nor should they be asked to. Yet that is exactly what Ubuntu demands to allow its users to do simplistic things such as surf the net.

For example, say that a webpage requires JRE to display correctly. Windows and IE offers an auto download or manual with double click install. Many distributions of Linux come with Java already installed. For Ubuntu…you have to drop to a command line and sudo to install it. What new Linux user is even going to know to do that? What new Linux user is going to feel comfortable doing that? Of course, let’s say that the new Linux user is sporting a nice Ubuntu 5.10. That’ll fix that sudo stuff right? Wrong. Automatix be damned…you still have much command line stuff to do.

Needless to say, until Ubuntu can provide an experience that is only one or two clicks away, it will forever remain second best to distros such as PCLinuxOS and SimplyMEPIS. It simply cannot compete against distros that work right out of the gate for new Linux users. Remember, new LINUX users…not just new users in general.

In closing, if Ubuntu works for you…that is great. I’m glad you’ve found a good distro. Ubuntu works great for me as well. As for my mother-in-law, wife, sister, uncle/aunt, etc…when they decide to give Linux a try and I want to really showcase how easy it is and how fantastic it works…you can bet that I won’t be showing them Ubuntu.

NOTE: For those of you emailing me constantly about Automatix being the save all for Ubuntu…remember one thing. To install Automatix, you have to drop to a console/shell. Enough said eh? The resolution seems to be part of the problem. I also really think the URL for the Automatix package is about the most non-professional URL that I’ve ever seen a debian/ubuntu package hosted on. I highly doubt my mother-in-law would be hyped up to visit that URL.

This content is published under the Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 Unported license.

Tags: community, debian, lame, new users, open source, rant, Rants, ubuntu

bucky

Your absolutely right about this Derrick. Recently when Debian was billed as a good beginner distro I cringed. The amazing thing is the amount of traffic in #debian despite the high turnover rate. I must admit I was one of those and I came back to Debian later… sometimes it’s still painful. What most newbies would welcome in a distro is one that when installed would automagically support the flash and java plugins for the browser and support all the codecs for mplayer. Problem is we don’t have any legal right to redistribute these plugins and codecs. Some distros don’t see it as a problem… Viva la ‘differance! Cheers
joswa

Finally, I found a real review about Ubuntu. I also disagree to a lot reviews that recommends Ubuntu to new linux users. Due to a lot work necessary to make Ubuntu a useable distro, I think the same for a new user.

By the way, before Warren Woodford, [url=http://www.biglinux.com.br/forum/viewtopic.php?t=865]BIGLinux[/url] (beta version), is trying to develop a KUbuntu based distro that address many of these questions (sorry, I think it is a portuguese only).
Kenf

One word synaptic. YOu do not ‘need’ the command line, programmers just use it. Look under system administration.
http://linux-blog.org devnet

Ok Kenf,

Synaptic. Now do a search for JRE on it.

Which one will a new Linux user Install? Packages that reference JRE will be there. Does a new Linux user know which one to install? Does a new Linux user know to search for JRE? Will they search for Java instead? If so, will every package that references java return in the results? Will they be able to wade through all the results to install the right package?
Even if you bill Synaptic as the problem solved solution to this dilemma you’re introducing more conflict into a new Linux users’ experience.
Distros that already have it done get my vote for new Linux user friendly.
Devnet
alrac

while your comments are right on, I disagree with a fundamental assumption- that computers should be easy to use, so that even Joe Dimwit can log on and edit his blog even when he’s tanked to the gills on beer and meth. (OK, I exaggerate, but so what, it’s fun.) Look at the mess the Internet is in because of the deadly combination of ignorant users + horrid Windows. Welcome to the Botnet! And all those awful unedited multiply-forwarded chain emails, and MySpace.com, and multi-megabyte email attachments, and all those other crimes against humanity.

I used to think making personal computers easier to use was a noble goal. Now I think that no one should be allowed to touch one until they pass a battery of competency tests, and their license can be revoked at any time for saying things like “Windows gets attacked more because it’s more popular” and ” “spam is not a problem, just hit delete” and “Gator! Cool!”
http://linux-blog.org devnet

Alrac,

You’re right on. Users should respect the technology they use. But as you and I both know that isn’t going to happen. Would you rather have someone be absolutely silly about what they download and pages they go to and ads they click on Windows or Linux? I’d say Linux also. Being the case, to get more users to the Linux front one must appeal to them. I’m not saying make Linux exactly like Windows…I’m saying make it have a certain level of functionality for the user so that doing common things such as browsing the web and emailing is easy.
Devnet
K12LTSP user moving to Ubuntu

Besides the fact that you should change the color of this page…

Note that the writings, on Ubuntu site claim that the names tell the story. The past names have been crude to reflect that at a 3rd release that things were not quite as done as they would like. Enter Dapper Drake about to take flight (a proper name, vs Hory Hedge Hog, or Breezy Badger, both lowly creatures)!

Dapper Drake… April 20th 2006… Yep,
There is maybe hope on the horizon and the critics should take note of the inner understandings of where things are at Ubuntu (Dapper is the 1st one that will indeed be tested as the foundation for everything else that will follow).

With Edubuntu, the folks at K12LTSP.org and the LTSP.org project have been working with Edubuntu folks to get Edubuntu so easy to install and use “that LINUX knowledge will not be needed”. AND the support will be for 3 years for desktop and 5 years for a server (vs just 18 months that Ubuntu had published as a per 6 month release of new version support term before)! The K12LTSP.org site also is more focused on helping. Fedora Core use at K12LSTP is a disaster (ever since Red Hat stopped education support for free for supported versions… the folks at K12LTSP have been battling with upgrade issues being tainted by the Fedora process and results have been unstable. The Edubuntu platform (actually the folks at K12LTSP personally liked debian, they just were in Red Hat’s corner from the start), anyway Edubuntu starts up and that seems to answer all the prayers that K12LTSP have! Support. Stability. And they can help and be listened to. And a major disto will support an easy to install LTSP terminal server! So – they (K12LTSP, LTSP, and Edubuntu teams as one) have been working hard at plugging in all the easy to use stuff of K12LTSP into Edubuntu for April release. Most likely some of this input and improvement will over flow into the others in the Ubuntu family.

My guess is that per K12LTSP releases that there will be version updates that will happen! K12LTSP always had little fixes that were done after each major release.

I just hope that they get UBUNTU and Edubuntu’s CLOCK to work right on VMWARE Workstation (my testing platform). The CLOCK with most LINUX distros a guests simply does not work correctly at all and this is not just my problem as there are pages out there that try to tell us how to fix it… but, like you said, this VMWARE – Ubuntu CLOCK REPAIR sugery is not for the newbie.

In fact, embarassed, I had a store bought copy of SuSE 9.3 that I installed on a New Dell for a friend and the CLOCK there also does not work correctly? Is this a LINUX problem in general?

Edubuntu, and Xbuntu (with security updates) will be very interesting for 3rd world use… as low RAM and slow processor speeds will need these two to be robust and work out of the box. Like you said… new users are the target for conversion… and it’s gotta be easy!
- Watt
  
  Unlike PCLinuxOS, it was not easy to update. The correct repos were not in synaptic. And much of its software was a generation back from PCLinuxOS. Debian was installable, but, due to the old versions of software, just did not have bedroom furniture the appeal of PCLOS, Ubuntu and RedHat were nightmares! The RH disk didn't even support ReiserFs, so I had to reformat a partition to Ext3.
JimR

The more “automatic” features you add to Linux, such as automatically installing Flash and Java for your browsers with simple clicks, the less secure Linux will become. If all it takes to install a whole package to your system is to be told, “you need this, so click install”….well, you know the rest.

Maybe Linux isn’t meant for those who don’t care to learn a little more about the inner workings of a computer. Maybe the answer isn’t to make Linux more featureful and less secure, maybe the answer is to teach the masses about secure computing. Maybe the answer is to teach our younger generations in schools today so that when they become Grandmas and Grandpas in the future, secure computing wouldn’t be too much of an issue. The Grandmas and Grandpas of today spent the majority of their lives not even knowing what a computer was, let alone how to operate one. The insecure, one click-one install is for those people, but they’ll soon be gone and they’ll be replaced by Grandmas and Grandpas who have used computers all their lives.

Secure computing will come over time. Right now we’re catering to the computer-illiterates who need to have their hands held throughout their computing sessions. Let Windows do that and let Linux take the responsibility of teaching the masses about secure computing.

Linux shouldn’t be too concerned about taking on a population of people who have no desire to learn and understand secure computing and Linux shouldn’t trip over itself to cater to these people. If Linux takes this route and eventually becomes more like Windows, then why would people want to learn a whole new operating system, a whole new system of unfamiliar software, only to have the same problems as Windows? In order for Linux to gain new users, Linux needs to offer new users a reason to switch to Linux and that reason is secure computing, not hand-holding, featureful, insecure computing. If it takes a little more knowledge, a little more time, a little more work to install something on Ubuntu, then Ubuntu isn’t doing something wrong…they’re doing something very right.
gnumber9

Port 22. I admin my parents box via ssh and do all the cli stuff for them. But since I built the box, they just click all they want to on it.
http://linux-blog.org devnet

JimR,

You’re right about teaching people. And it is happening. Today’s youth see a computer before they’re in third grade. But will you have them ONLY SEE A WINDOWS COMPUTER? That’s all they are seeing because Linux isn’t “New user friendly” enough. We need to get to a happy medium where new users feel good enough about the Linux desktop where teachers feel that they can teach using it and users can have a good experience with it.

One other thing…Linux will never be like Windows hopefully. I’d rather have it be user friendly in ways that Windows is user friendly. Having the community develop it means that it WILL be user friendly AND provide stellar security while doing it. Otherwise, no one will use the portion of the experience that causes the security holes…am I right? In open source, if the technology sux, it isn’t used and loses popularity and dies. In Windows, if the technology sux, it costs too much money to drop it so they keep it and try to cover it up or build around it or patch it. So Linux will inherently never be Windows-ish…I’d like it to be user friendly like Windows is though. I think it is achievable and I think it is commendable that companies like SuSe and Mandriva are working toward this level.

Devnet
http://www.ciber-runa.net Amos Batto

The point that this article omits is that Ubuntu is committed to the ideals of free software. There are plenty of distros out there for people who just want easy Linux computing such as Linspire or Xandros that don’t require any use of the command line and all the proprietary bits such as SUN JRE, MP3, and MPEG just work out of the box. These distros, however, aren’t entirely free software, so few people get excited about them.

The reason that Ubuntu is the fastest growing distribution is that it is fully free and relatively newbie friendly and it is based on Debian. Never before had that combination been offered before by a company with deep pockets to make it work and advertize it properly.

My point is that if Ubuntu decided to just make the proprietary bits work out of the box, it would be just like Xandros and Linspire and not nearly as many people would want to use it. In the long run, making it a hassle to get the proprietary bits will create enough pressure for the community to create its own alternatives. Look what is happening with java and flash. Very soon, the free software equivalents will be close enough to what SUN and Adobe(formerly Macromedia) offers, so there is no need to use the proprietary version. In the case of patented technology such as MP3 and MPEG, we have to switch to ogg vorbis and ogg theora.

So make up your mind. We already have “proprietary” linux which is as easy to use Windows, but it isn’t gratis (free in price). If this what you want then use it, but don’t whine because free software distros don’t offer it because they can’t.

What Devnet wants is both gratis software and free software which uses proprietary bits, but he doesn’t acknowledge that that simply isn’t possible given the legal constraints of those proprietary bits. Nor does he acknowledge that it isn’t desireable to have such a distro in the long run since it undermines a freer future. Yes, the current situation is a pain being halfway between a free and proprietary world, but every day it is getting better because people are refusing to use proprietary bits or making it more difficult to use them. PDF, OpenDocument, and Ogg Vorbis are rapidly becoming standards which everyone has to support. We may have to wait longer for every company to start supporting SVG and Ogg Theora, but it will eventually happen, so there will be no need for us to use flash and MPEG.

We have to ask why we won’t people to switch to Linux. There are many possible reasons, but recognize that Ubuntu is doing what it is doing because it is committed to free software. Now if you have suggestions of how Ubuntu could be more newbie-friendly, while still being true to free software principles, let’s hear them and discuss them. That is the way to make Ubuntu better.
JimR

Devnet,

I hope you’re right that Linux will never become Windows-ish.

I understand what you’re saying about finding that happy medium between “new user friendliness” and security. The only problem with that is the fact that new users aren’t willing to give, they’re not willing to take the extra time and effort to learn something new. They have busy lives and they’re not interested in the computer, itself, they’re only interested in what the computer provides (email, IM, Web surfing, etc). They want everything handed to them on a platter, they want everything to be as simple as clicking this or that button. They don’t want to know what it means to click install, they only want to know that if they click install they will be able to email, IM, surf the web, etc.

Now Linux is fighting to gain more new users. Over time, Linux is adding more and more insecure “user-friendly” features. The relationship between new users and Linux isn’t an equal give and take relationship, the relationship is a give all-take all one. New users want to take all and Linux has to give all and in doing so Linux will eventually become the insecure operating system that Windows is.

Linux needs to remain as secure as possible and that requires new users to learn some new things. If the new user isn’t willing to learn new things then Linux isn’t for them. They will just have to continue sacrificing security for user-friendliness.

Eventually the potential new users (this includes schools and teachers, btw) will get frustrated with dealing with all of the problems that come with insecure computing and they will make the conscious decision to take the time to learn some new things in order to gain the benefits of secure computing with Linux. It’s only then, when the new user is willing to give a little, the Linux-new user relationship will succeed.

Little by little, this is happening. I’m a former Windows user who finally got fed up with insecure computing and the costs that go with it and I made the conscious decision to learn about Linux. Today, a little over a year later, I’m using Slackware Linux and using Linux has become second nature for me. I don’t have to deal with the headaches that come with insecure computing anymore.

Apparently the Linux community isn’t happy with the speed of new user adoptions of Linux, but the Linux community shouldn’t make the mistake of rushing it because if they do, Linux will suffer in the long run.

There’s currently a slow and steady growth of new users in the Linux community. Let’s learn to be happy with that. The slow growth shouldn’t be looked at as a bad thing…it’s all good. Slow growth == longevity.
Elvis

This is the conf. for your target user: business office-suite (word, e-mail, spreadsheet, etc.) plus web with all “standard” plugins. These users expect all media suite software capable of playing all media formats.

That’s it. For your gamers and technoids, well, they can sudu, if needed.
http://users.lichtsnel.nl Herman

Personally I think the target audience here can barely work with windows. Can they install Windows? I think not. I think the’ll ask their (grand)son or neighborhood kid. Or they bring away their computer once a year to a computer shop because it gets slow.

Personally I think that Ubuntu is one of the distributions which makes most progress with making it accessible for new users.

In the next version, Ubuntu 6.04 you’ll have a graphical installer (which is quite easy (where partitioning is most difficult step (but still easier then in the windows installation (and you can just accept the defaults))).

In the applications menu there is a option called “Add Software”. Well I think its hard to get it more easy then that. The Add software application got a little more friendly as well compared to version 5.10.

The whole restricted formats/sofware stuff is a problem because of its free nature. They just can’t ship it by default. They are trying to make it more accessible every release but it won’t ever be there out of the box.

I think Ubuntu will soon reach a state (depending on your criterea the next version or in another year) where your grandmother can do the exact same (and secretly i think a bit more) then with her windows. She will still need her grandson or neighborhood kid though. But thats not any different from Windows.

Regards,

Herman
http://www.dhruva.be Rohan

Hi,

Great distro. Portrays the truth. As much as i’d want ubuntu to be no.1 desktop distro, it can never hope to come close, seeing that it cannot even play mp3′s by default. I know, i know, there are legal issues ..

As far as automatix is concerned — PLEASE [b]DO NOT[/b] use it / promote its use. It has caused damage to many ‘pristine’ ubuntu installs. Ask on #ubuntu and you will know. And yes, the url is revolting. Would do better to post the ip instead.

Rohan.
Adrian

That’s not true about Automatix, you don’t have to go to command prompt.

Yes the instructions on that site said this:
wget http://fuckbirdflu.com/automatix/automatix_5.5-2_i386.deb
sudo dpkg -i automatix_5.5-2_i386.deb

However you can very well just go the that web site and download the deb, rightclick on it and install it.
Tristan

I agree with you completly. I have been a windows user since dos4.

Sure i have used command lines but in windows, not nix.

i dont know what the commands are in nix, read the manual right? which one?yeah…

i tried ubuntu out a month or so ago. wonderful i need ndiswrapper.

wonderful, linux doesnot support WPA. thats real secure…

i needed a 10 page walkthrough just to upgrade firefox to v1.5. wonderful…

As for this so called “secure computing” bull, how is it insecure to prompt for a root password if i just want to double click an installer.

why do i need to type sudo which will just prompt me for a password. whats the big difference?

please someone tell me.
anonymous

> wonderful, linux doesnot support WPA.
> thats real secure…

It does support WPA, it’s just not easy to set it up. Things have been changing on the wireless front, so this is not a problem anymore.

> i needed a 10 page walkthrough just to
> upgrade firefox to v1.5. wonderful…

Either you are a n00b (be happy with 1.0.7), or not (do the hardwork). Make up your mind!

>why do i need to type sudo which will
>just prompt me for a password. whats
>the big difference?

Hmm, the assumption is that you won’t install crap on your system. No system can solve PEBKAC.
http://livejournal.com/users/rayne_vandunem Harry Underwood

I agree wholeheartedly with everything that Devnet mentioned, and I want to respond to all of the comments which have been made in regard to ease of use vs. functionality (particularly with the accompanying attitude behind such comments).

First off, let’s get something straight: if you want to make your computer as secure as possible, pick your own darn binary format! I mean, can’t it just be that simple? The Windows OS is getting hit ALL OF THE TIME with digital contagions through the seemingly ubiquitous .exe (the Windows binary format); the same just began to happen to Mac OS X as well (thus slightly quieting the rancor that is always raised by the Apple “fanboys” about invulnerability to viruses).

So it makes obvious sense: if anyone with malicious digital intentions happens to know your OS’s binary format, and such is being increasingly catered to by third-party developers, *then* you can expect that your system will be vulnerable. Fortunately, the GNU/Linux platform is far too diverse in binary formation for any such attack except at the source-package level (which I doubt, although I haven’t looked deep enough into the possibility).

Hopefully, GNU/Linux will stay that way, too. If you really wanted to make a user-friendly Linux, then I say that the distro model should be abandoned in favor of a totally individual approach. The user should not only be given a seamlessly-comprehensible GUI for anything that he or she may want to do (screw the CLI BS), but he or she should also be able to ensure his or her own security at the most basic level by using his/her own binary format (which can then be regarded as being as important to him/her as his/her login-password combination). Plus, he or she should have his or her own pick of programs to install upon the first CD boot. Finally, he or she should be able to compile everything after the install completes from source (well, that goes without saying because of the individual binary format), and that should be given a completely foolproof GUI as well.

Thus, “Joe (or Jane) Dimwit” will have a 1) comprehensible, foolproof GUI from the getgo, 2) a Linux that doesn’t come precompiled with programs which will not be of any obvious use to him or her, and 3), above all, a totally base-secure Linux. Such should ensure that, for the individual end user, choice and security can both walk hand-in-hand without compromising each other’s validity.

I say that the reason why Linux is kept from taking such an obvious approach is because many of the developers, while being the greatest contributors, can be (and usually are) the greatest a**holes because of inflated egos in regards to the end user (for them, the end user should be able to figure the distro out for themselves, or at least make use of forums, IRC, mailing lists, wikis or Google). Such is especially applicable to the spartans of the Debian community, who have a bad reputation for such attitudes, hence Ubuntu (which uses a variation of .deb), Gentoo, or other distribution communities which are better reputed. Such behaviour is not going to allow for an expansion of the amorphous silly-putty known as Linux into areas and places in which it is needed.

My two cents.
http://vale.homelinux.net/ Valentino

The article also mentions the screen resolution issue. I just installed Dapper Flight4, on my AMD64. Well, I now have flickering 60 Hz with my Illyama VisionMaster Pro 400 on a NVidia 6600 grafics card and can not change that to a decent flicker free 85 Hz without hitting the command line, editing x.conf.

Why? Because my monitor is not beeing detected by ddcprobe, and there is not manual screen selection menu or screen setup as in PCLinuxOS, Suse, Mandriva, you name it.

Ridiculous. Especially when one considers the fact that Ubuntu is supposed to support people in Africa who not necessarily all have the latest hardware and monitors, so my problem seems to be a very common one. My logfiles on my server where I host a little how-to for this issue tells the same…..

http://vale.homelinux.net/wordpress/?p=32

I have written a lot in the forums and complaint about that issue – Maybe Mark Shuttleworth reads this article and kicks some butts now. Such a basic feature but the developers all have shiny new LCD screens so they do not see the need for the monitor selection menu.
http://www.lobby4linux.com helios

Thank you, Thank you…..and Thank You.

As some know, and many more do not, Lobby4linux will be sponsoring/spearheading the first-ever community driven advertising campaign for Linux. I have been flamed to a cinder for choosing PCLinuxOS as the featured distro. We will also feature SimplyMepis and a couple others…both for their noob friendliness and because they run well as live cd’s.

Over 250 replies/emails to the announcement screamed, “Whyyy Nottt Ubuntuuuuuuu! Devnet makes our point clearly thank you. While PCLinuxOS is technically listed as “beta” “experimental” software, it still outperforms most any distro for the new Linux User. While some above me believe that the new linux user should suffer the slings and arrows of Noob-dom, I disagree. Besides, with the guidance of the pclinuxos wiki and the soon-to-go-online MyFistLinux.com, people will know exactly why there are the differences between Windows and Linux. It is explained on the MFL website in detail.

Thank you Mr. Devnet for so succinctly saying what thousands of us have been thinking. I applaude Shuttleworth for his work and I both envy and thank him. With his billions, I friggin’ refuse to spend community donated dollars to advertise HIS distro. If he wants to promote Ubuntu via TV and radio, I believe he has the means.

helios
http://www.lobby4linux.com/WordPress
http://www.lobby4linux.com
http://www.tuxme.com/why-ubuntu-isnt-for-new-linux-users Tuxme.com

Why Ubuntu isn’t for New Linux Users – I was getting a bit tired of saying the same things over and over to friends on the net. I was getting tired of repetitiously posting in forums the same sentiment over and over. Yet, just like getting a second wind i
JanC

AFAIK this was an issue with AMD64 systems, and IIRC it’s fixed in dapper now.?
Janice

Is any Linux for beginners? Yes, but I don’t think Ubuntu nor PCLinuxOS is. Diskdrake is not for people inexpereinced with paritioning their hard drive, especially if they want to dual-boot with Windows. The only distro I would recommend for absolute *nix-newbies would be Xandros OCE. Installing and paritioning it is a breeze. After it’s installed, explain the basic difference between root & user then point them in the direction of the Xandros forums, where they’ll learn how to use apt and everything else they’ll eventually need to know.

I like PCLinuxOS – I’m using now, in fact – and I like Kubuntu as well. But neither is really newbie-friendly enough that I would recommend it to someone who isn’t already somewhat familiar with Linux.
http://www.lobby4linux.com helios

Xandros…? Is that still considered a Linux distro? Why not just give them Linspire? The proprietary hacking of both systems have left them hardly recognizable as Linux disto’s. We both share a like for PCLinuxOS and the PCLinuxOS Wiki is an excellent step by step instruction manual for the partitioning. Yes, it could be made better and I am loving the way Xandros handles the partitioning automatically…other distros should mimic it if they can…if its not proprietary.

PCLinuxOS should not be discounted because of the diskdrake feature. If that is the only argument against it…I would say its a small price to pay. Out-of-the-box functunality is fantastic compared to anything else. I believe it will improve in a release or two.

helios
http://www.vcn.bc.ca/~apater/ Alan Pater

To install java in Ubuntu, click the Applications menu > Add Applications > Internet > More > Java Web Start.

Ubuntu cannot include Java by default, because Java is not free software.
Big Husky

I have just finished a test drive of the latest dapper drake flight Alpha 4livecd, simplymepis 3.4-3, knoppix 4.0 and PCLinuxOS 0.92 and all I can say is that I fully agree with the original post.
PCLinuxOS boots into a full usable desktop in less than half the time of knoppix, simplymepis and ubuntu on my desktop and my laptop.
PCLinuxOS, Knoppix and SimplyMepis default and successfully run in 1024×768. Ubuntu on this machine comes up in 640×480 at 60hz and it doesn’t seem to be able to be convinced to use anything else.
Overall ‘snappiness’ is also a clear 1)PCLinuxOS 2)Knoppix 3)SimplyMepis and 4)Ubuntu

The default appearance is a clear winner for PCLinuxOS with the best fonts out of the box. Just beautiful.

Now, just like with every version of Linux you can spend time with every distro and make it look and work just the way you want it, but when it comes to “out-of-the-box” experience currently there is only one distro that takes the price and that is PCLinuxOS.
Development is moving on in great steps and you should see a 0.93 release any day now.

Your experience with your Hardware will vary and that is why we have the choice of all those great distros. Just keep an open mind and give them all a try.

Hardware:
AMD Athlon XP 2500+
512MB DDR Ram
ATI 9600XT
SBLive 5.1

BH
nix_os_fan

I totally agree. I tried Ewwwbuntu and was dropped into the ugliest desktop on the planet. From there I had no clue how to get my pppoe dsl fired up so I could install some necessary packages. Was a big Mepis fan for a while until in went down hill, went through a SuSE period until they got all licence paranoid and the OS was neutered. Recently tried PCLinuxOS and fell in love with it. I am not affiliated with the distro (I hang around the forum sometimes but that is it). I was wary of RPM based distros because my first Linux experience was with a very unpolished Fedora which did not go well at all. My next RPM distro was SuSE but I found it had a kind of ‘don’t tweak anything because we don’t want you to break the OS’ feel about it. Tried a little customizing and it did break. PCLinuxOS is polished and flexible. The package repository may be a little smaller than some distros but PCLinuxOS is meant for the desktop of HOME PC’s and there is ample packages for that target audience. Grandma does not need a code compiler, at leat not yet, anyway. There is life after M$ Windhose! >:-]
http://techn0manc3r.blogspot.com/ Pete Trbovich

What is it you mean to accomplish? Do away with the keyboard entirely? Then how will you write these articles????????? I came to this article because I, too, dislike Ubuntu being pushed in the face of new users – for exactly the opposite reason; it’s dumbed down already so that I cannot even call it Linux, and hence fosters unrealistic expectations of what Linux is like.
How is the new user going to deal with the command line? The same way they dealt with the DOS command line, before Windows exterminated it based on the bogus belief that it was too hard for users to master. Books like “DOS for Dummies” notwithstanding. You folks who want to lobotomize Linux need to take a hard look at yourselves: when you say “It’s too difficult for the user.” you need to drop the hypocracy and turn to the user and say what’s REALLY on your mind: Tell them “You’re too stupid. I don’t believe you can learn anything. I have no faith in your ability to improve or grow.” That’s all it boils down to.
I used to use Windows. Back when it was 3.1 and came with DOS 6.22 and QBasic, I found it actually tolerable. It was only because of the later versions, which came redstamped with the policy of turning it into a Fischer-Price toy because some marketing drone thought that’s how stupid I was, that I got sick of Windows and moved on and discovered Linux. Now Linux is turning the same way. More and more each release, I am once again robbed of the opportunity of doing something more meaningful with my computer time besides point at pictures with a little arrow and message other beboppers asking their stupid A/S/L. I’ve already checked out FreeBSD, Plan Nine from Bell Labs, Open Solaris, and GNU/HURD, just to keep an eye on my emergency exits for the inevitable day when Linux sinks into the same tar pit Microsoft did.
Apparently, my only option is to keep running my whole life long. It’s just a shame that people like me are teaching users to use the tools you disdain, and hence I’m complimenting their intelligence, only to have people like you come along in my wake and insult their intelligence and take their new toy away just when they were discovering how cool it is.
Ruel Smith

This article is full of inaccuracies. You don’t have to ‘drop to a commandline’ to surf the net. What do you mean ‘drop to a commandline’, anyway? You can just open a console.

As for the person referring to which package to install in Synaptic when you search for JRE: First of all, it’s ‘j2re’. Secondly, the results are:

j2re1.4
j2re1.4-mozilla-plugin
openoffice.org2
sun-j2re1.5

Which one would YOU choose? The descriptions tell the whole story. ‘j2re1.4′ is a Blackdown Java runtime environment. ‘sun-j2re1.5′ is obviously from Sun. Unless you’re an idiot, you can’t get it wrong.

You can install everything with Synaptic. However, you will have to open a console to do a few things, like enable glx support in the nVidia drivers. Ubuntu’s forums are great, and any idiot can go there and search for the answer. There’s even a how-to section. How much more simple can it be?

When the console directions are so laid out for you, as in the case with Automatix, what’s the point? It doesn’t get any easier. I can still install it without ever going to a console, but will admit that a new Linux user wouldn’t know the bag of tricks.

You have to learn your way around the environment sometime…
http://debcentral.org Josh

Derrick,

I took the liberty of posting this on [url=http://debcentral.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=284]DebCentral.org[/url]. I hope that’s ok with you. We’ve had similar discussions about this same topic.

You definitely have some interesting points. That said, I don’t think I’m qualified to say what is better or worse for a new Linux user. It seems the general consensus is that to be useful to a new Linux user, you must be able to do everything from a clicky GUI. When I first started with Linux, the thought of being able to do everything from a GUI was miles off, so I came into it prepared to learn the CLI. What’s changed since then? Well, it appears to be mainly this perception that new Linux users are CLI-phobic. I’m not sure where that ever came from, but I see it repeated over and over again. Then again, I’ve never yet seen a *nix of any kind (including OS X) where you can do *everything* a general desktop user may want from a GUI.

I think in order to determine what a new Linux user wants/needs, that general user needs to be more defined. Windows may be near 100% GUI-ish but my Grandma still gets confused by it. The idea that a GUI is some kind of Holy Grail of usability is sadly mistaken IMO. But, as I said, I don’t even pretend to know what a new user would need or expect.
weg

ubuntu isnt debian
ubuntu isnt the perfect distro for anyone at all let alone noobs. The sooner its off no.1 spot of distrowatch the better imo.
http://drgeorge.org George F. Rice

Actually, one thing I greatly [i]enjoy[/i] with Linux is the variety of distributions. I firmly believe that the healthy ecosystem of niche-targeted distros is a huge [i]advantage[/i] over proprietary alternatives.
http://nightfox.wordpress.com nightfox

IMHO, Ubuntu is not really for newbies (Xandros tops the list in the distrowatch) http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=major

But the only thing that limits Ubuntu to be accepted (like some of my friends) is the ability to download packages via the Internet. Some of my friends only have dial-up connection, but I have converted some people with DSL connection and they had really appreciated/loved the distro! Don’t forget the amazing community support too (in Ubuntu). And for that reason, they ignored their Wind0ze partitions. haha
cyber_rigger

…Repository Size….

IMO Ubuntu is the best “newbie” distro
without sacrificing the “big repository”.
Ubuntu has about 10,000 packages (Debian has 17,000).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Linux_distributions

There are probably easier distros
but they have smaller repositories.

For example Xandros or Linspire are more
“newbie friendly” but they might not have some xyz package you want.

I guess you also have to define “newbie”.
A seasoned computer user
yet a Linux newbie should be comfortable
with Ubuntu.
A complete computer newbie
might want to start with a limited distro.
davecs

A few months ago I had a bit of an install-fest on my spare partition. Ubuntu, Debian, Red Hat, Mepis and a few others were tried. My main partition has held PCLinuxOS ever since it displaced Gentoo.

Of all of them, only MEPIS was easy to install, but, unlike PCLinuxOS, it was not easy to update. The correct repos were not in synaptic. And much of its software was a generation back from PCLinuxOS. Debian was installable, but, due to the old versions of software, just did not have the appeal of PCLOS, Ubuntu and RedHat were nightmares! The RH disk didn’t even support ReiserFs, so I had to reformat a partition to Ext3.

BTW I have used Windows since 3.11 and DOS before that. I wrote Z80 code for the Spectrum and the Einstein. I am not afraid of the command line.

However, I am not a typical computer user, and I feel that I can help people with PCLinuxOS whereas with other distros I would be the one asking for help. It is user friendly, a nice desktop with everything working (hardware permitting – a general Linux problem) in 20-30 minutes.

Just look at the testimonials on the PCLOS site… you’ll know what it’s about!
http://www.whistlingwitch.com Lena

I put my father on to Ubuntu Linux some time ago. He loves it. My mother is still using windows. Neither of them have any ability to know what is going on with their computers at any given time. My mother one-click installs everything in sight in hope of making whatever it is she wants to work – work, and than it doesn’t and she stops. My father on the other hand will find something that doesn’t work and move on. Guess which one is happier and more virus free?

Let me make this clear, neither one of them wants to know what makes their computer work and neither one of them should. I believe if tanked out people on beer and meth are able to get to their computer it is their right to blog.

Here’s what happen to my father after I switched him to linux and left for college. Three month later he called me up and said his computer was slow, did he have a virus? I asked “When did you turn it off last?” Answer – the week before I left. So, I told him to just restart it every month. When I got home I figured out that his version of mozilla had a memory leek, now he doesn’t turn off his computer, he just quits mozilla. Once when he was having real trouble with an e-mail attachment I was able to ssh into his computer and fix it.

Here’s what happened to my mother. Her windows machine started to go slow. Nothing happen when she rebooted. She took it into BestBuy where she bought it and they charged her $150 didn’t delete the spyware she had only the viruses and got her a spyware program.

My fathers problems are generally easier to fix, and are never so debilitating that he can’t do what he wants to do, which are the same as my mother – e-mail surf and play solitare. One more note, my mother now wants to switch to linux.

Basically you are not talking about the grandmas out there, as they would probable not know how to install jre on windows or linux, and oddly enough not care. You are talking about the class of people who are moderatly skilled on a computer. Ubuntu if fine for those who do not have even these moderate skills and have specific tasks they want done. Solitare, e-mail, and web surfing is about all my grandma (90 years old) needs. I should probably switch her to linux so her grand kids would quit kazaaing on her computer.
smartjak

When you really think about it, all Linux distro are pretty much this way. With the exception of just a few. From what I hear and read, Mepis being one of them.

No, Ubuntu – and the other distros – are not ready for the mass market. Flat out not!

Go with one of the commercial distro like SUSE or Linsprire or Xandros and even the commercial Mepis. When you stop and think about it, they are cheaper and just as usable as Windows.

But in Linux you have the option (choice). Not something you can say about Windows.
Chele

Don’t use synaptic, use “Add Applicatons”. Also know as the Gnome App Install. “This program allows you to add or remove programs with a click of a button.” Perfect for the computer user with no interest in the technical side of things.

I find that for these non technical users, it is a mistake to hand then an OS cd. That applies to OSX, Windows, and Ubuntu. Installing an OS on a computer is for technicians, for people interested in tweaking and fiddling with things.
James

Ubuntu isn’t dumbed down enough already? hmm.
Lawrence Barnes

Amen! After maybe six years using Linux, I still struggle to do many of the infrequent configurations/installs that various distros handle differently. I used Libranet happily for some time (after starting with SuSE and later RH), but when their latest version turned out badly, I moved over to SUSE 10 and aimed for Debian Sarge. In fact I had to get data from the xorg setup in SUSE to edit the XF86Config-4 file in Debian 3.1 because Debian completely botched the config of my monitor (which no other distro ever did). Right now I’m trying to get my new printer running, and dreading yet another go-round with the Flash install (which I always manage to bungle, somehow). Even someone who goes back a ways with various Linux distros can have problems just moving from here to there in the Linux world…..I’m an eternal newbie, I’m afraid, and it does not have to be! Anyhow: Debian for Linux newbies? No way!! I’m proud to have come as far as I have, because getting Sarge to behave is definitely not a task for a Redmond refugee!!
ercan

If you can read you can use windows.
If you can use windows you can use ubuntu.

If you can install windows you can install ubuntu. If you can’t you pay for someone else to do it for you.
Chanchao

Agree that Ubuntu is not at that level (yet). But SimpliMEPIS?? That’s a hell of a lot WORSE. I actuall WAS ‘new’ to Linux and could not get Mepis to work. Ubuntu was the first one that did work, and that was easy enough for me to use.

So while it’s not at an Apple or Google level and may never get there, it’s the best one out there.
http://linux-blog.org devnet

Not really.

Try PCLinuxOS and SimplyMEPIS. Then come ask your question again. SimplyMEPIS makes it as easy as going to apple.com/trailers immediately after a hard drive install and being able to watch videos. It’s that easy.
http://linux-blog.org devnet

Ubuntu and SimplyMEPIS are both Debian based. If Ubuntu works, chances are that SimplyMEPIS will work. It is also known that SimplyMEPIS has outstanding detection capabilities. It can install most winmodems and use them out of the box. If you haven’t tried it in a while, I’d say give it a go again. It automounts drives, it plays streaming video from the web directly after an install, it plays mp3′s out of the gate, you can watch TV using a capture card immediately after install. The install is a few clicks and 15 minutes long and uses the desktop on the liveCD for its GUI. I’d have to say that MEPIS hands down beats Ubuntu for new Linux users. If you don’t think so, check the links at the bottom of this article…pay close attention to the experiment we went through. Granted, it was 5.04. But if those things that my wife found are not fixed (which they aren’t) then you can bet it would rate low on her scale again. The only two distros she found to her liking were SimplyMEPIS and PCLinuxOS.
http://www.servertude.co.uk Apostasy

This would be a viable solution if it weren’t for the fact that the Add Applications option simply prompts for the root password and then does nothing.

I’ve been told this shouldn’t happen, but as I’ve installed it on both my desktop (home built AMD Athlon 2400) and my laptop (Compaq nx7010) and get the same behaviour on both I find this difficult to believe. Bad install media? I doubt it as I’ve tried both 5.04 and 5.10 from Ubuntu’s official install disks. Unless of course Ubuntu have managed to ship disks from two bad batches…

The only good thing I will say about Ubuntu is that the wireless on my laptop worked out of the box. However, it wasn’t exactly difficult to get it working on Mandriva as the setup tool told me exactly where to download the firmware and where to put it. I certainly won’t be switching to Ubuntu any time soon, nor any other Debian derivative.
paulo

I bet you everything that your wife will make xandros her number 1. distro! It is truly the easierst to use. My girl friend even asked me once if this is a new windows version while she was working on it. Linspire has bad commercial politics and try to rip you have with their membership fee for any further apps, in xandros is everything free which is opensource. You can download everything you need from their Xandros network no costs added. Plus the file manager feels and the whole gui make the transition from windows just perfect. Try it and test it and you will see there is nothing better out there for newbies then xandros. That is it.
http://www.lobby4linux.com helios

OK…You sold me. I want to try Xandros. However, want the full version for no money and I want to be able to hack the file system to suit my needs. If you can arrange that for me, I will not only use it, I will deny PCLinuxOS and Mepis are the best new-user distro’s in existance and write a blog read by 75,000 saying I have been wrong all the time about PCLinuxOS. I will proclaim Xandros as the best new linux user distro.

I bet you everything that your wife will make xandros her number 1.

You already lose. Now pay up Everything. You, like hundreds of others didn’t bother to read the whole experiment…in fact, it appears you did not read the first 3 paragraphs. This is based on OPEN SOURCE software. Now get those things done for me and I will write the blog.

helios
joe

Your article isn’t really about Ubuntu. It is about Linux in general. Not to be a fanboy, but as a linux user who started out with a debian sarge disk and a prayer, I find ubuntu to be very user friendly. It works out of the box. Getting DVDs to play requires a little bit of tweaking. But it is all clearly outlined in the FAQ and Startup Guide.

That being said, I think you underestimate the average Joe. As a freshman in college, we were taught how to use the dreaded command prompt to check out email on pine. It wasnt that hard. Even the Art Students could do it.

I have my 60 yr old mother using a computer with Ubuntu installed for email and websurfing. She doesn’t love it, and she prefers windows, but it works well for her when she can’t use “a real computer”.
Dale

This is the first non sensicle article that I have read and am compelled to reply to.

YOU ARE RIGHT ON!!!

I am a Linux User since version ? 1994. And went totally Linux in 1996 with RH. I have pretty much stayed with RH, but I delve often in other distros. Linux isn’t for every one, but Open Source is.

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